I'm hesitant to post this article, "Why I Am Leaving Guyland," not because I find any flaw in its logic or inappropriateness in its tone. Rather, I fear that, for the men in my life, it would be coming from the wrong source.
To be a girl referencing an article about "Peter Pan Syndrome" and "Adultescence" rarely comes without the slightest twinge of bitterness. It's like how I couldn't casually recommend a self-help book on the calming effect of an organized home to a messy roommate who might legitimately need the advice--there's a more appropriate way to address such an issue. In many cases, the source of reproach can make all the difference.
But what actually struck me from the article, aside from the legitimate argument against encouraging prolonged childhood, and the angle I wanted to discuss, were the statistics presented about women's salaries:
"Last year, researchers at Queens College in New York determined that women between 21 and 30 in at least five major cities, including Dallas, Chicago and New York, have not only made up the wage gap since 1970—they now earn upwards of 15 percent more than their male counterparts. As a result, many men feel redundant."
"Not enough!" I can hear my old feminism professor's tirade ringing in my ears. Until she deems it perfect equality, she will not be satisfied. Yet, I'm baffled. On one hand, I am tempted to think it positive that women are finding their place in life and finally being paid more equally for their work. There are more of us in college now and more taking executive positions. Though maybe still not equal, we are definitely making some great progress.
Progress. Then I think about all the different women I know who are getting master's degrees because, without the marriage and family they expected, they just kept learning in order vie for a career. I think about how, when work feels overwhelming, I sometimes wish I'd followed Plan A, which would have me at home with kids instead. We didn't mean to make our men feel redundant. We just didn't know what else to do. We progressed--that is, we, to our detriment, moved in a direction we were told was forward.
It's no wonder I find myself drawn to guys who are in the upper 20s/early 30s range. Guys my age are generally still figuring themselves out (of course so are some of the 30-somethings). As I'm getting a little more settled, I'm generally interested in men who are on the same trajectory, which often means five to ten years my senior.
In discussing the article earlier today, a friend of mine put it like this: "I think the point was that the women were surpassing men because women were acting like adults where the men still wanted to act like kids." His words ring harshly, but as one of the men I know who is definitely a man, I figure he's allowed to put it that way. I, as a woman, dare not.
My question in all of this hits a little more practically. If this is the problem, what can we do to help? As a woman, how do I best discourage this kind of behavior in the men I know without coming across as bitter, cynical, judging, etc, etc? Ultimately, what honors God the most?
I have a hunch there's a balance somewhere between women grabbing at power and men throwing hands up in disgust and letting us have it. Eve did it to Adam, and ever since, the fight for who ends up on top has permeated the battle of the sexes.
But what I find most frustrating is that the church is not exempt from this problem. Call me elitist, but when I see an issue like this, it's easy to attribute it simply to not knowing God and not knowing any better--the rest of the world doesn't follow God's design for how men and women should relate to one another, and therefore, encounter problems. However, proof that church people are just as messed up, just as needy of grace, we run into the same blunders. We say we follow God, and He tells us how to do relationships right...but we mess it all up.
I imagine what it would look like if we lived counter-culturally in this area--if we pursued marriages that honored God, that were passionate and fun, that encouraged and built character, relationships that proved to the rest of the world that God knew what he was talking about when he said, "It is not good for man to be alone." Our generation runs from marriage because we have shoddy examples of it, but if the church could show off marriage in a real and tangible way, what a beautiful reflection that would be of its designer, our God.
If we were a little more pro-marriage out here in the West Coast Church, those of us still single might actually want to pair off and settle down ourselves. Meanwhile, we need not nag our men to just "grow up" or whine about how "we are worth it" and, why don't they understand that? No, God is worth it--His truth is worth it, and relationships themselves, as God designed, are innately good and should be pursued as such. We could all benefit from a little more pointing to and pursing Christ and a little less angst, frustration, and selfish ambition. To God be the glory.
"So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."
-2 Timothy 2:22-26
7 comments:
Funny, because the bitter "I woke up @ 3:40am to get to work" side of me reads that and says: "oh how cute, some young woman is trying. 'NOT ENOUGH' [smugly snarls back, knowing that that actually doesn't help, in fact only deters the women from actually pursuing this upright and sound endeavor, but feels a cathartic release of emotion being able to rally behind some senseless saying that represents "years of oppression" inevitably causing him to feel... like a woman.]
Behold man has now become woman. and right on cue for when women don't need more women. [revels in his imagination - seeing men asking their wives not to slam the lid on their masculinity.... dream ends].
Meredith - well written. I may have one bone to pick with you on this - and its about that word you chose "progress" in reference to "We didn't mean to make our men feel redundant. We just didn't know what else to do. - we progressed" - - though good intentioned, Translation = we didn't mean to be selfish, but we didn't like moving in the direction of selflessness - we chose what suited our needs best at the time. This is not progress. Progress is not that simple. Progress means you have the foresight to understand that your change will lead to better things and that you grit your teeth through the storm of making that change transpire. I believe many women, now coming to the end of they're teeth grinding, take a look around and realize there aren't many men in that neck of the woods. Instead of being a little shocked at what they've done - shrug their shoulders and say: "hey it isn't my fault, you [insert senseless tirade on inadequacy] It's your problem now - in fact, I kind of like it here"
what's worse is then men take their cues from women and react to that sentiment to the tune of: "Oh well, then don't mind me if I go do what makes me feel good too, whats "best" for me - carefree-ness here i come!!!" That's when women get frumpy. In this battle of "immovable forces" the women tried to bend the corner assuming that men would never change their position. [Shakes fist - "scheming bunch, the whole lot of you"]. But indeed the men did change their position. And the women now having toiled generations to arrive where they are, now realize their actions have practically shoved men towards irresponsibility - seemingly opened to door to Disneyland and laid a red carpet down. Now women, in this new delicate problem, would rather men NOT go down that road but instead man up, take charge, lead.... [Hears woman: no no no no no - you should be doing this.... this is not how its supposed to be. Why won't you just man up? why won't you just be what you're supposed to be? why has my perfect plan failed?] Needless to say women have gone about this the wrong way. Moreover, for a man now to take charge inevitably means conflict with women, and though that's honestly what some women want these days - it's going to mean alot of "conflict/grinding of teeth" to set us back on course and work it out.
I've heard the: "Yeah, but we're worth it" defense from many women in response to that last bit - which is jarring. Scheming to cajole a male into selflessness [shakes head]. This is jarring because what drove women to the "progress" in the past was hardly a selfless act stirred in response to a man's claim of "yeah but we're worth it" - it was selfish move towards what women wanted. and yet, now, this is the card being played - asking a man to now progress for reasons of "women are worth it." This approach massively truncates a sentiment of entitlement most women believe that have by simply existing. I suppose women shouldn't be that greatly alarmed when men, in response to the current situation, say: "we didn't know what else to do - we progressed" - nonsense. We know exactly what to do we just don't want to fight that battle. The great irony to this is that it took alot of hard work to give women power/make men redundant, turn society on its head, and yet now that we're there, it takes absolutely no effort to keep things the way they are - and that's taking its toll. I think women feel that they've been carrying the load for the last 50+ [or 3000 some would say] years and now that they've gotten where they set their eyes on - they drop the bag and look to the men to do their fair share of the toiling. Problem is, men are not committed to the women's plans.
In the end, the biblical model always wins - and that is what drives me to take charge.
Good insights Meredith - well done.
wow- interesting post and Newsweek article.
I'm not sure if it's Men or Women's fault about what's going on, but Women taking the independent role and pursuing careers and education, over family and kids may or may not be the best thing.
Women, for the last 2000 years, have never been out of the house until the last 50 years. Before then, they never worked, never left home, and hardly voted. If you go 50 years prior to that, the difference is even more stark.
Studies are showing that women that grow up in socities where women have more independence (western europe, america, etc) have higher divorce rates, less satisfied sexually, more depressed, etc. There may be benefits in staying tradition instead of always 'moving forward.'
But since the cat is out of the bag, as they say, we can't put women back in the house, kick them out of college, and decrease their wages.
So what do we do? How will men and women be better matched in the coming generations?
my mom works and my dad stays at home, and I wouldn't have it any other way
and I don't think God would either
At first I struggled with whether or not to respond to this post Mere. In part because its 2 am, and in part because I know that I speak from a fundamentally different view point. But I read these comments and I couldn't help to get upset.
I agree that we do have a growing problem with extended adolescence, that many men are reluctant to take on life's responsibilities (which may or may not include marriage and children) until later in life. I believe that women are the same way.
I have to strongly disagree with the idea that women's increased presence in the workplace and more autonomy is the cause for this. Men and women are yet to be treated equally--its a scale that will probably always be tipped one way or the other, even if just slightly so. I believe that a lot of sexism still exists in our society, and while not entirely directed at women, it mostly is.
I believe that we have an extended adolescence because most of us aren't forced to take on the responsibilities as early as our parents or our grandparents were. College for most isn't really independence; you may live outside of your parent's home but they aren't there. You get the joys of living without rules without a lot of the responsibility that comes with that (ie bills, etc.). We don't have to grow up.
I struggle with this mentality. I don't know if I want to get married, but I often feel that the thought of entertaining it at my age is silly. I want to go travel and "be young" but I also want to settle down in my apartment, start making a home.
Maybe it comes from our lack of forced responsibility, maybe it comes from the baby boomer generation lamenting their lost youth, telling us to enjoy being young while it lasts, I don't know. I just have to say that it is not the progress that women have made that has caused this lack of responsibility. I also can't help to feel that to blame it on women is to be a kidult or whatever the heck Guyland calls them.
Again, I reiterate the fact that I am coming from a completely different camp. I respect and admire the endeavor to create good healthy marriages and families, and might pursue it myself one of these days. I just also strongly believe that women should have the ability to also have careers if they want. (Im not saying that you don't, Mere). And now I'm talking in circles so I am going to go to bed.
I originally responded to Meredith in private because that's how I normally respond, but after reading that series of comments, I decided to give yet another view, one I believe is correct, on the source of the problem. I'll copy and paste this from the email I sent her:
This response was also partially to her earlier blog on damages, but part of it is relevant here, so I referenced it; here's the important segment from that topic:
While it is true that alot of guys don't want to know how much or what baggage you carry, I would say it is equally valid that those, in general, are the ones you want to stay away from if you want to avoid a divorce. Mostly because a guy that cannot understand that who you are is crafted and formed by how the people around you treat you, and that the history is as important as the present to the future, are also not going to be thinking about children, or about your welfare, or his own. He's still going to be in college party mode (cross apply all the notes from your latest blog). Several guys i know that are worth dating have discussed different relationships with me and what they've been through and they're general impression is "I don't know how she can even trust me after all she's been through, I'm so lucky, etc etc". Of course, these are going to be a vast minority, because what is necessary for that is sensitivity and emotional understanding, which is inherently and intentionally removed from the vast majority of the males through both schooling and parenting. With various lines of thoughts like "guys can't cry" and "guys must be macho" and that kind of thought, it's no surprise that alot of guys don't know how to care, whether it be for themselves or their significant other. In closing on this topic, since I don't want to stay too long on what could easily be an essay-worthy topic: if he doesn't want to hear your baggage, take it somewhere else, it is as much a part of you as your future will be, and it always will be. If you ignore it, it will get worse, and cause more problems.
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Now my actual response to this topic (with the above referenced in the middle):
Finally on Peter Pan. I spoke most of my thoughts on male maturity earlier, but here it goes one more round. I believe that the failure to mature in most males of today stems from an unintentional stunting in the male human growth cycle by our society. By emphasizing sports and "manliness" and competition we grow our muscles, but not our brains, and not our hearts. To know love, you must first love. What is inside will, eventually, mirror what is outside, but not because the inner has changed. Eventually, though it takes a long time, words and thoughts take precedence in development over past acts. Usually by then it is too late. To those of us left alone in life early on (the outcasts, so to speak, whether by self-intent or society) have naught to do but question. Why am I teased? Why am i different? How do I appear? With every stone thrown, one learns more and more that throwing stones is wrong. With every heart carelessly broken, one learns more and more that doing so carelessly is wrong. The first time a boy gives a flower to girl and sees her eyes light up, is the last time that he does not take a flower on a date. Learning. It's something we all have to do, but women, because of society, learn of themselves, and their heart sooner than do men (mostly). While boys think of football, they do not think of girls until the subject of sexuality comes up. This isn't just in growing up, but in the teaching as well. The fathers are to blame for the sons' irreverence to the heart, and, subsequently, their failure to grow into men as girls do into women. So what is the answer to this circle of dilemmas? Women, encourage romance and caring in your children. Father's, look to more than sports in your boys. If all the boys know is how to hit a ball, then when a woman tries to give a boy her heart, she'll find it knocked into outfield.
-- Note: I AM male, so don't limit your responses to some form of gender biased rhetoric, not that, anyone would do that, of course.
I originally responded to Meredith in private because that's how I normally respond, but after reading that series of comments, I decided to give yet another view, one I believe is correct, on the source of the problem. I'll copy and paste this from the email I sent her:
This response was also partially to her earlier blog on damages, but part of it is relevant here, so I referenced it; here's the important segment from that topic:
While it is true that alot of guys don't want to know how much or what baggage you carry, I would say it is equally valid that those, in general, are the ones you want to stay away from if you want to avoid a divorce. Mostly because a guy that cannot understand that who you are is crafted and formed by how the people around you treat you, and that the history is as important as the present to the future, are also not going to be thinking about children, or about your welfare, or his own. He's still going to be in college party mode (cross apply all the notes from your latest blog). Several guys i know that are worth dating have discussed different relationships with me and what they've been through and they're general impression is "I don't know how she can even trust me after all she's been through, I'm so lucky, etc etc". Of course, these are going to be a vast minority, because what is necessary for that is sensitivity and emotional understanding, which is inherently and intentionally removed from the vast majority of the males through both schooling and parenting. With various lines of thoughts like "guys can't cry" and "guys must be macho" and that kind of thought, it's no surprise that alot of guys don't know how to care, whether it be for themselves or their significant other. In closing on this topic, since I don't want to stay too long on what could easily be an essay-worthy topic: if he doesn't want to hear your baggage, take it somewhere else, it is as much a part of you as your future will be, and it always will be. If you ignore it, it will get worse, and cause more problems.
------------------
Now my actual response to this topic (with the above referenced in the middle):
Finally on Peter Pan. I spoke most of my thoughts on male maturity earlier, but here it goes one more round. I believe that the failure to mature in most males of today stems from an unintentional stunting in the male human growth cycle by our society. By emphasizing sports and "manliness" and competition we grow our muscles, but not our brains, and not our hearts. To know love, you must first love. What is inside will, eventually, mirror what is outside, but not because the inner has changed. Eventually, though it takes a long time, words and thoughts take precedence in development over past acts. Usually by then it is too late. To those of us left alone in life early on (the outcasts, so to speak, whether by self-intent or society) have naught to do but question. Why am I teased? Why am i different? How do I appear? With every stone thrown, one learns more and more that throwing stones is wrong. With every heart carelessly broken, one learns more and more that doing so carelessly is wrong. The first time a boy gives a flower to girl and sees her eyes light up, is the last time that he does not take a flower on a date. Learning. It's something we all have to do, but women, because of society, learn of themselves, and their heart sooner than do men (mostly). While boys think of football, they do not think of girls until the subject of sexuality comes up. This isn't just in growing up, but in the teaching as well. The fathers are to blame for the sons' irreverence to the heart, and, subsequently, their failure to grow into men as girls do into women. So what is the answer to this circle of dilemmas? Women, encourage romance and caring in your children. Father's, look to more than sports in your boys. If all the boys know is how to hit a ball, then when a woman tries to give a boy her heart, she'll find it knocked into outfield.
-- Note: I AM male, so don't limit your responses to some form of gender biased rhetoric, not that, anyone would do that, of course.
I don't believe "the fathers are to blame" as much as I believe"the mothers are to blame." This isn't less about smaller issues like who raised us, and bigger ones like what kind of society we live in.
In America, love is mostly a marginal phenomenon. This is because love requires patience, concentration, and discipline. In our current society, this isn't emphasized. It's actually not considered.
Our society pushes us to be demanding customers, not waiting around, having fun, and shopping whenever we get our paycheck. We don't stress frugality, we don't emphasize waiting, and if something isn't fun, 9/10 people will tell you to stop doing it. Immediately.
We've grown into a hedonistic society where the point isn't to love and build great relationships, but to constantly stay occupied, spend, stay busy.
Being unemployed, having down time, and giving time are frowned upon. It actually looks cool to be busy all the time. Even though majority of the time we're just at home watching TV.
(also wrote anonymous post #2)
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